|
Post by russilwvong on Jun 28, 2011 14:41:07 GMT -5
I don't understand why people in this thread keep talking about how there's a scene in "A Game of Thrones" which raises questions about Jon Snow's parentage. Which scene are they talking about? In "A Game of Thrones", Rhaegar Targaryen is only described as the son of Mad King Aerys, who kidnapped and raped Lyanna Stark, and was killed by Robert Baratheon. In "A Clash of Kings" we get a glimpse of a more sympathetic Rhaegar, but it's not really until "A Storm of Swords" that there's much material for speculation about a relationship between Rhaegar and Lyanna.
|
|
nubs
New Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by nubs on Jun 28, 2011 14:56:25 GMT -5
The scene in question is known as the Tower of Joy, or ToJ for short. In the flashback, we are witness to Ned's arrival at the Tower of Joy in the aftermath of the sack of King's Landing. The Tower is apparently in or around the mountains near Dorne. The tower is guarded by three members of the Kingsguard. Here is a link to the text of that scene: home.roadrunner.com/~gaidin/towerofjoy.htmlThe reference to "bed of blood" is used in other areas of AGOT to describe a woman giving birth. This scene is the basis of a theory of Jon Snow's parentage, often referred to as R+L=J which posits that Rhaegar and Lyanna are Jon's parents, and that Ned's promise to Lyanna was to hide the truth of Jon's parentage, as Robert was fairly intent on wiping out the Targaryen line. There are other hints in later books (see especially the story of the Tourney in the year of the false spring told to Bran in ASOS) of some level of relationship between Rhaegar and Lyanna, but the Tower of Joy scene is the critical foundation of R+L=J. The only living character who would know the truth of the Tower of Joy is Howland Reed. I've covered some ground you already know in this summary russilwvong, but I think it would be handy for others coming into the discussion who may not be as versed.
|
|
|
Post by russilwvong on Jun 28, 2011 16:57:02 GMT -5
Thanks, nubs.
I'm curious: did people come up with this theory after the first book was published, but before the second book? And especially before the third book?
To me, there's lots of evidence of the theory in the *third* book. In retrospect, Martin's carefully written the first book to leave open the possibility that Jon is Lyanna's son, not Eddard's--but I think that's definitely not obvious on the basis of the first book alone.
|
|
nubs
New Member
Posts: 17
|
Post by nubs on Jun 28, 2011 17:14:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure when the theory started. I read AGOT and ACOK very close together, and came across the theory afterwards - before ASOS - so I would guess that some folks came up with R+L=J before ASOS.
What is interesting about the details added by ASOS is that the possibility that Lyanna was a willing participant really changes my perceptions of Robert's Rebellion - it goes from Robert being a vengeful, righteous crusader to (essentially) a cuckold seeking revenge. Lyanna suddenly gains agency as a character. It also plays with the themes of honour and duty - Lyanna and Rhaegar walked away from those, with tragic results not only for them, but the whole realm.
Blah, blah, blah. Look at me avoid my end of quarter report writing.
|
|