Big Love, all seasons [spoilers]

[Ms Harriet Vane]

Ok, so after it came up in the introductions thread, I thought I should start a Big Love thread. Since all five seasons have aired in the US, and are available on DVD (at least, I've seen them all here in Oz), I figure we'll have openly available spoilers unless anyone particularly wants tagging so they can join in. If so, let me or one of the mods know and we can change the thread title.

So: the finale. From what I wrote in the introductions thread, you could be forgiven for thinking that I hated it. But in fact I loved it, in all it's weirdness, and thought it was a brave and unsettling ending.

Until I read an interview from the creators (will find and link if I can) where I felt that their intention was far different from my interpretation.

How did other people interpret the finale? What did you think was in store for each character after the end of the show? What was your interpretation of the final shot in the show?

[PhoBWanKenobi]

Jun 19, 2011 8:51:45 GMT -5 Ms Harriet Vane said:

So: the finale. From what I wrote in the introductions thread, you could be forgiven for thinking that I hated it. But in fact I loved it, in all it's weirdness, and thought it was a brave and unsettling ending.

Until I read an interview from the creators (will find and link if I can) where I felt that their intention was far different from my interpretation.

How did other people interpret the finale? What did you think was in store for each character after the end of the show? What was your interpretation of the final shot in the show?

If anyone wants to watch the last ten minutes, it's here on youtube.

Now, I have to admit that I didn't watch all of the last two seasons. I do know that there was conflict between Bill and Barb about her right to hold the priesthood, that Margie was revealed to be younger than she actually was, etc. etc.

The very last scene, when Bill watches them embrace, I think can be taken in several ways. A fairly saccharine way--that Bill is watching them, waiting for them in the Celestial Kingdom. But then he disappears, showing the table alone, an empty mirror of the opening from several seasons.

I've always interpreted this as saying that he brought the family together, etc., but the future for the women is fairly unknown. They're a very different sort of family from the one Bill originally intended.

What did the interview say?

[Ms Harriet Vane]

This interview isn't the one I read but it's more or less the same questions and answers.

They saw the ending as ultimately a happy one: Bill has a vision that lets him become less of a fundamentalist, and the women all have each other to be one big happy family even after he's gone.

Which isn't that unreasonable an interpretation of it, and it made me feel a bit silly about mine.

Over the whole series, I've come to really dislike Bill and his high-handed authoritarian manner. Not just with his wives, but with everyone, because he thinks he's chosen by God. And in the last season, I felt that the stories focused on him and Nikki were really showing that their childhood on the compound had really messed with their heads. As much as I've always felt sympathy for Nikki, it was the first time I'd felt even a little bit for Bill. They've both been away from the compound for ages, but they'll never really shake off the changes it made to their worldview.

And I felt supported in that by Barb telling Nikki that she knows Nikki will always be mean and petty, and that she loves her anyway. Barb forgives her what she can't help, and appreciates her other good qualities.

Also, Don finally loses his respect for Bill (over what he sees as Bill's wilful blindness over Margene's age), the Homes Plus stores are in trouble and the casino is no longer theirs. Bill's attempts to build security for himself just couldn't work in the long run.

After Bill dies (and I really enjoyed the resonance of it being Carl, which ties into my other interpretation of the show as having a lot to say about consumerism as religion), his wives actually start to live their lives. They don't have to follow Bill's business plan anymore. Barb puts all that responsible motherly attitude to good use instead of stifling it, Nikki gets to live freely and heal in her own time, Margene gets the travel and excitement that a young woman should have.

So when Bill's ghost shows up, given my interpretation of the show, I didn't think "aww, how sweet, he's watching over them". I thought of the only other ghost who's made an appearance in spite of the many on- and off-screen deaths: Roman Grant, haunting Alby. Even after Roman died, his abusive parenting continued to ruin the lives of his children Nikki and Alby (particularly Alby).

I felt that the final scene was actually quite off-kilter and a little bleak: you think you're free of the psychological stress, but it's effects will linger on even after the source is gone. The wives will struggle to be happy as long as Bill's influence on their personalities continues. On the upside, they've got each other, and no-one else would understand what they've been through quite as well. They'll at least have the support that Bill and Alby didn't get.

I still like my interpretation, I just wish there was some way I could make it dovetail with what the creators had in mind!

Edited to add: here's a clip of Alby and Roman's ghost

[PhoBWanKenobi]

Jun 20, 2011 8:00:58 GMT -5 Ms Harriet Vane said:

Over the whole series, I've come to really dislike Bill and his high-handed authoritarian manner. Not just with his wives, but with everyone, because he thinks he's chosen by God. And in the last season, I felt that the stories focused on him and Nikki were really showing that their childhood on the compound had really messed with their heads. As much as I've always felt sympathy for Nikki, it was the first time I'd felt even a little bit for Bill. They've both been away from the compound for ages, but they'll never really shake off the changes it made to their worldview.

This. I really disliked Bill, too--I realize that he's fairly accurately reflective of his religion, but I was never wholly convinced that the writers realized how unbearable, condescending, and controlling he was to the women in his lives.

This quote from the writers kind of upsets me:"because we always essentially wanted to dramatize a family that works."

Because in what way was this a family that works, from the outset? It didn't seem to work for Nikki, or for Barb. From the first episode, it seems like Barb is grappling with the loss of her ability to bear children, which is really the only role in life her religion (and her husband's religion) gives her--this seemed to be, in a large way, why she begins acquiescing to Bill's desire to bring other wives in. Really, for both Nikki and Barb, there was such a bit conflict over that--over the reproductive rights and their worth outside of that.

Barb eventually finds meaning aside from that. She seems to be a better head of household than Bill was. But it's only in his absence. Margie's able to have a young life, freedom outside of young motherhood. Barb is able to take on religious leadership. None of this would have been possible without Bill's death. So how was the family really functional? Because it really, really didn't seem to be, from what I saw of the show.

[Ms Harriet Vane]

Exactly! How could they say it was a family that worked? Remind me not to go to Sunday dinner at their place.

During the first few seasons, I was hoping Nikki and Margene would leave and find their own lives (it's not like Nikki really needs a man at all) and Bill would realise what an arse he'd been and rekindle his relationship with Barb.

I do worry about Ben as well - or Heather, rather. Ben's always been fine with his Dad's religion. He was happy flirting with the twin compound girls looking for a man (singular, not one each). He suggests to Heather that they could share a house with the appalling Rhonda. In terms of Bill's ongoing influence on him, I think it won't be long before he's trying to persuade Heather that another wife would be really good for her.

It seemed during the series like Teeny would be more or less 'adopted' by Sarah as an attempt to get her away from the situation. But perhaps with Bill gone, Sarah won't think it's necessary.

I'm not sure I'll ever understand what the writers were thinking. Are they joking? Did they get too many death threats from fundamentalists and decide to make things deliberately ambiguous? They can't really be that clueless about characters they spent years and years on, surely.

[Ms Harriet Vane]

I've just finished reading Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer, which came recommended in some of the MeFi threads about Big Love and other Mormon topics.

It was interesting to see where the Big Love writers had borrowed little bits and pieces from real life. Juniper Creek was modelled on Short Creek/Colorado City, and the Greens in Mexico were roughly equivalent to the LeBarons. Even the time when a couple of women from the Green family shot Roman (end of one of the middle seasons) was a bit like a real-life incident with Ervil LeBaron sending his wife Rena Chynoweth to shoot Rulon Allred of Short Creek.

There was another little bit about a fundamentalist who met a non-Mormon Eastern European immigrant and was going to marry her, but it fell through, and all the rivalry among families for the leadership role was very similar.

Overall though, I don't think it's possible to point to a real-life person and say that they were the model for a specific character. It's much more creative than that, while staying grounded in real social situations and history.

I'd recommend the book to anyone interested in finding out more about fundamentalist Mormons. Of course, LDS officials have condemned it, but it's well-researched and thoughtful.