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Post by russilwvong on Jul 7, 2011 12:35:44 GMT -5
Thread for discussing "A Dance with Dragons". The official release date is July 12.
Please mark all spoilers.
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Post by russilwvong on Jul 7, 2011 12:51:15 GMT -5
"A Feast for Crows" introduces a number of new players (not surprising, since Balon Greyjoy, Robb Stark, and Tywin Lannister are all dead). Besides Cersei Lannister in King's Landing and Petyr Baelish in the Vale, there's Euron Crow's-Eye in the Iron Islands (who plans to use dragons to conquer the whole of Westeros), Doran Martell in Dorne (plotting a Targaryen restoration), and Marwyn the Mage in Oldtown.
At the end of "A Feast for Crows", Euron has sent Victarion to Meereen, Doran has sent his son Quentyn, and Marwyn is heading to Meereen himself. My guess, though, is that they won't arrive in Meereen until the next book, or until the very end of "A Dance with Dragons", because most of the action in "A Dance with Dragons" will be happening in parallel with the action in "A Feast for Crows."
So I'd expect "A Dance with Dragons" to focus on Daenerys Targaryen's rule over Meereen on the one hand, and the North on the other. In the North, the players are Stannis Baratheon, Jon Snow and the Night's Watch, and Roose Bolton and his son Ramsay.
Given the events of the first three books, I'm wondering who's going to die: by arrest and execution, assassination, treachery, or war. |
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Post by russilwvong on Jul 8, 2011 14:39:34 GMT -5
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nubs
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by nubs on Jul 8, 2011 18:08:43 GMT -5
Good stuff. I'm about to go away for a week (and will hopefully get my claws into ADWD during that time), but won't be back until I've read it all and have a burning desire for discussion and questions.
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Post by russilwvong on Jul 13, 2011 23:15:15 GMT -5
Okay, I've finished the book. Anyone else?
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Post by furiousxgeorge on Jul 14, 2011 23:30:15 GMT -5
I loved it but ARGHH more cliffhangers. So many great moments. Watching the show really helped bring some of the moments to greater life in my head than they had in the other books. ESPECIALLY Theon hearing Bran from the weirwood. I flashed back to Osha telling Bran to listen for the whispers in that same spot. Holy fuck, Theon's whole story ranks among the best in any of the books.
There was not one chapter where it felt like it was dragging for me.
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Post by russilwvong on Jul 15, 2011 10:29:49 GMT -5
Were there that many cliffhangers? Daenerys has ridden Drogon. The dragons are now large enough for battle, though not yet trained.
Tyrion has reached Meereen and joined the Second Sons. (Victarion and Marwyn the Mage have not yet arrived.)
Jon Connington, Aegon Targaryen, and the Golden Company have landed on Westeros.
We don't know what will happen in the North in the aftermath of Stannis's defeat at Winterfell and Jon Snow's assassination at the Wall. Notable deaths, in order of occurrence. I may have missed some! Quentyn Martell, son of Doran Martell -- burned while trying to steal a dragon in Meereen
Stannis Baratheon -- reportedly killed in battle at Winterfell
Jon Snow -- attempted to lead a wildling army south against Ramsay Snow, killed by the Night's Watch
Pycelle -- assassinated by Varys
Kevan Lannister -- assassinated by Varys, to prolong Cersei's misrule A couple cliffhangers from "A Feast for Crows" were resolved (a pleasant surprise): The word Brienne screamed was presumably "Yes." She leads Jaime into a trap.
Arya was only temporarily blinded, as part of her training. |
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Post by russilwvong on Jul 15, 2011 10:32:49 GMT -5
I agree that Theon's story (in both "A Clash of Kings" and "A Dance with Dragons") is awesome. It's harrowing to read, though. For some reason I had imagined that he would have been completely flayed. Of course, that would have killed him.
After seeing what a monster Ramsay Snow is, it's natural for us to want Jon Snow to go south and kill him.... But of course that's not so different from Sansa Stark's thinking that Loras Tyrell should be the one to go kill Gregor Clegane, just like in the songs. |
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nubs
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by nubs on Jul 19, 2011 12:12:08 GMT -5
Overall, the theme of the book seems to be failure - most of the characters fail to achieve what they set out to do, while others take only small steps...I was disappointed in the lack of resolution in the Tyrion, Dany and Cersei storylines. But these (Feast & Dance) are the middle books between the first three and the last two, and I suspect they suffer as a result. Martin cleared the table of major issues in Storm and needs to set up the pieces for the endgame.
Some thoughts:
-I don't think Jon is dead. The prologue and all the other discussion of wargs leads me to believe that Jon will be back, in one form or another. Besides which, I don't think Martin has yet killed a POV character while we've been in his POV - it has always been witnessed, not experienced. I knew it was coming, but still found it sad to watch Jon send away his friends and build the resentment of the men around him.
-Melisandre's POV was great to have. Learned a lot about her, including how fallible she is. I loved the line about her praying to see Azor, but only getting Snow. She has started to move from being someone I truly disliked to someone I at least have sympathy for.
-Theon was a fascinating read...again, GRRM takes a character I detested and has made him sympathetic.
-Cersei - truly broken by her walk, or scheming again? I just don't trust that woman.
-Kevan's death - by far and away the most surprising of the book, and one that seems guaranteed to plunge the Kingdoms back into chaos.
-WTF happened with Stannis & Roose? We know Roose is preparing to march, and later we have word from Ramsay that Stannis is dead - but despite the presence of at least two POV characters (Theon and Asha) in Stannis' camp, we don't see a battle. If I remember right, we even hear from the guy from the Iron Bank that Winterfell is empty, but yet we have no idea where Roose took his men.
-Where is Davos off to?(Really glad he isn't dead, btw) I have always believed that Rickon would be found with Howland Reed, but I don't recall any statements about the crannogmen that they engage in cannibalism. I have read speculation that Skagos is where Davos is bound, but that seems to make little sense - when last we saw Rickon and Osha, they were headed south.
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Post by russilwvong on Jul 20, 2011 20:47:34 GMT -5
Responding to nubs: I don't think Jon is dead. The prologue and all the other discussion of wargs leads me to believe that Jon will be back, in one form or another. Besides which, I don't think Martin has yet killed a POV character while we've been in his POV - it has always been witnessed, not experienced. I knew it was coming, but still found it sad to watch Jon send away his friends and build the resentment of the men around him. I definitely didn't see it coming. I was looking forward to Jon defeating Ramsay Bolton. Now, though ... if Stannis Baratheon, Jon Snow, and possibly Roose Bolton are all dead, and the ironborn are off in the East, that leaves Ramsay Bolton as the de facto ruler of the North. I wouldn't put a lot of weight on meta-evidence that Jon Snow isn't really dead. Eddard Stark died. Catelyn Stark died (and we saw it from her POV). Robb Stark died. I think Jon's dead. He may be resurrected in some way, as Catelyn was. But I'm not counting on it. Total speculation: We don't know anything about the Others. I'm wondering if they're an army raised by the children of the forest to defend against men. Or if they are, in fact, the children of the forest, dressed in armor. (I have absolutely no evidence for this, other than Coldhands' not being able to pass through the Wall, and his killing the rangers. And how did Brynden Rivers, commander of the Night's Watch, end up deserting to live with the children of the forest?)
If the children of the forest are behind the Others, then Bran -- and Jon Snow, in fact -- may end up on the side of the Others.
If there's some obvious reason why this theory is completely ridiculous, please let me know. |
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misha
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Post by misha on Jul 22, 2011 10:08:58 GMT -5
Finished dancing. Now I'm exhausted.  Theon's story is absolutely gripping. He has become my favorite character despite, or maybe because of, all his flaws. Someone needs to torture Ramsey, repeatedly, maybe even several someones. While Theon watches. Except, of course, he is not and could never be the monster that Ramsey is. How do I post spoilers so that they only show by a click, as you all have? What tags do I use? I don't want to ruin anything, but I do need to rant. |
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Post by russilwvong on Jul 22, 2011 11:00:22 GMT -5
Finished dancing. Now I'm exhausted. Theon's story is absolutely gripping. He has become my favorite character despite, or maybe because of, all his flaws. Someone needs to torture Ramsey, repeatedly, maybe even several someones. While Theon watches. Except, of course, he is not and could never be the monster that Ramsey is. How do I post spoilers so that they only show by a click, as you all have? What tags do I use? I don't want to ruin anything, but I do need to rant. Hi, misha! The button for the spoiler tag is the smiley-face icon that looks surprised (mouth open, eyes periodically go wide). My favorite GRRM scenes tend to be the emotionally harrowing ones. In A Dance with Dragons: - Theon's story.
- And especially: "The rope. Frenya has the rope."
- Quentyn's attempt to steal the dragons. I know we don't see much of him--but that takes guts.
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Post by Ms Harriet Vane on Sept 25, 2011 5:41:37 GMT -5
Finally done reading it! Wheee! I too was completely confused by the last few chapters that referred to events at Winterfell. What the hell happened there? I don't think Jon is dead as of the end of his chapter. I think he's grievously wounded, and there's time for him to either kill a few mutineers before he dies, or for someone to show up and save him. I'm putting it down on the cliffhanger list. Tyrion's story was fun to read, but very frustrating. As far as I can tell, there are only two significant plot/character movements: befriending Penny, and convincing Young Griff to change his plans. Both of those seem pretty damn important to me, but not enough to warrant watching every single step of his travels. Dany's chapters were also frustrating. I know we have to see her struggle to rule in a way she didn't struggle with battle. Without that, it'd just look like all of a sudden she became mature for no reason at all, instead of through bitter experience. But damn, it took so long, with so many things happening that don't seem like they'll be relevant from here on. At least Jon's story led to him making decisions that have real consequences for himself and everyone else in Westeros. And we got to see that Bran and Arya are doing ok, Davos is ok (for now, I suppose, although I'm still not sure where Manderley sent him - did anyone else catch that?), Melisandre isn't as good at reading the flames as she thinks she is, and Victarion is kinda daft too. I loved Theon's plotline though. Really excellently written, especially the chapter where he goes to Moat Cailin - his real thoughts bubbling up but then ruthlessly squashed down in an act of self-preservation. |
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