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Post by PhoBWanKenobi on Jun 18, 2011 16:28:46 GMT -5
Here's a place to discuss "Fire and Blood," which airs on Sunday, June 19th in the US.
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Post by Ms Harriet Vane on Jun 19, 2011 8:38:01 GMT -5
As a book-fan, I know pretty much exactly what's going to happen in this episode (don't worry, I'm not going to spoil it).
But the quality of all the previous episodes, and the way they've handled all the earlier events where they couldn't/wouldn't follow the books exactly, means that I'm as equally excited for this episode as I'd be for any new-to-me ep for another series.
Yay for quality television! Counting down for airtime...
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Post by misslapin on Jun 19, 2011 16:39:50 GMT -5
I'm excited too! (I'm only half way through the first book though.)
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Post by PhoBWanKenobi on Jun 19, 2011 20:08:20 GMT -5
Yaay!
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Post by misslapin on Jun 19, 2011 23:16:01 GMT -5
I cannot believe I have to wait until NEXT SPRING for another season! Luckily I started reading Book 1 a few weeks ago and so I'll have some GoT goodness to keep me company.
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Post by PhoBWanKenobi on Jun 19, 2011 23:24:49 GMT -5
I cannot believe I have to wait until NEXT SPRING for another season! Luckily I started reading Book 1 a few weeks ago and so I'll have some GoT goodness to keep me company. Seriously, that was CRAZY. I can't wait to see Dany continue to come into her own. WITH DRAGONS.
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Post by Ms Harriet Vane on Jun 20, 2011 9:49:13 GMT -5
I loved that. I loved Sansa even *thinking* about maybe harming Joffrey. I loved the Hound looking out for her, in a minimalist sort of way. I loved Yoren taking care of Arya. I loved Jon Snow sticking around for a different kind of war. I loved Dany knowing what had to be done, and Jorah not quite getting it. I even liked coma!Drogo, in that it looked right to me, not that it's how anyone would have wanted him to go. I loved Tyrion finally getting an ounce of respect from his father Tywin.
I dunno if I'm getting Shae. I don't feel like we really know her yet. I wasn't quite keen on Mirri Maz Duur as acted - she seemed too modern to me, maybe? Or her monologue wasn't as bitter as it should have been? I'm not sure exactly. But whatever, she's not a problem anymore I suppose. And I could do without Pycelle's rambling about kings - unlike the other monologue-plus-nudity scenes, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to learn from that one. He's more spry than he lets on, but a much shorter scene could have conveyed that.
Anyway, those are mere quibbles. It was a great end to a great season.
P.S. Was Pycelle's prostitute the same one who travelled from Winterfell to Kings Landing?
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Post by fantasyarchipelago on Jun 20, 2011 10:07:33 GMT -5
And I could do without Pycelle's rambling about kings - unlike the other monologue-plus-nudity scenes, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to learn from that one. He's more spry than he lets on, but a much shorter scene could have conveyed that. P.S. Was Pycelle's prostitute the same one who travelled from Winterfell to Kings Landing? I kind of got the feeling they were going for an Al Swearengen BJ monologue ala Deadwood plus a little senility. I didn't really feel it worked either. And yeah, that was the prostitute who came from Winterfell.
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Post by misslapin on Jun 20, 2011 10:09:24 GMT -5
His rambling about the King illustrates how many kings he has served-mad King Aerys, King Robert, and now King Joffrey. He's been able to do so because apparently he's quite wily (hence faking infirmity so people underestimate him allowing him to be be even more manipulative since he's not seen as a threat). I'm guessing the point here is not to underestimate him as a player in the game.
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Post by fantasyarchipelago on Jun 20, 2011 10:46:46 GMT -5
His rambling about the King illustrates how many kings he has served-mad King Aerys, King Robert, and now King Joffrey. He's been able to do so because apparently he's quite wily (hence faking infirmity so people underestimate him allowing him to be be even more manipulative since he's not seen as a threat). I'm guessing the point here is not to underestimate him as a player in the game. Maybe I'm just a naturally suspicious kinda guy, but I already saw him that way. I was amused by how uninterested the prostitute was in his rambling, especially the part where she says "What was the thing to know about kings? You said there was one thing to know about kings?" and he has forgotten what the heck it was. Maybe we'll find out next season!
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Post by misslapin on Jun 20, 2011 14:47:33 GMT -5
I forgot to say that this episode seemed to focus on the old gypsy curse "May you get what you want" Arya finally gets to be a "tomboy", Sansa gets to be with King Joffrey, and Jon gets to go beyond the Wall. Each of these characters finally gets something they wanted in the past only to realize what they were really wishing for. It seems yet anther way Martin is twisting the whole fantasy/fairytale aspect of his work. (There's a better word than twisting but I'm hot and sweaty and can't quite think of it.)
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Post by PhoBWanKenobi on Jun 20, 2011 15:27:24 GMT -5
His rambling about the King illustrates how many kings he has served-mad King Aerys, King Robert, and now King Joffrey. He's been able to do so because apparently he's quite wily (hence faking infirmity so people underestimate him allowing him to be be even more manipulative since he's not seen as a threat). I'm guessing the point here is not to underestimate him as a player in the game. It also illustrated that he's a very bad judge of character! I liked the hardening of Sansa. Interesting tension between her and the guard, too. I love the explorations here of how women with limited options all try to wrangle some small piece of power for themselves.
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Post by brandonblatcher on Jun 20, 2011 18:26:32 GMT -5
As someone who just started watching over the past two weeks, I'm pretty "What, that's it?" Not that it was terrible, but the introduction of actual dragons leaves me underwhelmed. Similar to the Seasonal 3 finale of True Blood, I fear the magical elements may overpower the characters and plot. There's plenty enough going on without the third wheel story of the silver haired chick and her rise to power, however well the actress is pulling off the role. Oh, but the opening was damn fine. The props and makeup people are having a blast, you can tell. The blood dripping from the sword was lovingly rendered. And the specter of Ned towers over everything. I can't say I was really impressed by his death last episode, thinking it was fairly cheap trick of the writer (haha, you thought he would saved, nope!), but the finale puts that thought to rest. His murder has profound repercussions, ones that seem as though they will be felt for a long time. Well done. But the ending? A bit of resolution would have been nice and I say that as a huge fan of the Empire Strikes Back and its lack of a neatly tied ending. But it had a resting, where cast licked their wounds and made plans and everything was quiet for a bit. GoT feels as though it ended as things were still falling apart, as opposed to when they pieces finally settled. Oh yeah, here's a post and links from Metafilter. Check out the articles, they're pretty interesting: reviews and thoughts about HBO's adaptation of George R. R. Martin's Game of Thrones are starting to appear online (SPOILERS GALORE. Might be a good idea to keep comments to the tv series and not the books, to avoid revealing plot points to those who haven't read the books). The articles haved touched on a number of points about the cable series, including the display and power of grief, its female characters, the five sickets scenes and general thoughts on the first season. (All links discuss the entire first season, but not the books).admin edit: removed HTML.
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Post by PhoBWanKenobi on Jun 20, 2011 20:06:31 GMT -5
As someone who just started watching over the past two weeks, I'm pretty "What, that's it?" Not that it was terrible, but the introduction of actual dragons leaves me underwhelmed. Similar to the Seasonal 3 finale of True Blood, I fear the magical elements may overpower the characters and plot. There's plenty enough going on without the third wheel story of the silver haired chick and her rise to power, however well the actress is pulling off the role. Hmm, interesting. I've actually felt fine with the supernatural elements, in part because I feel like they're so much more lightly handled than in a lot of high fantasy--the dragons, for instance, are not supermagickalamazing, but rather seem fairly plausible within their world's internal science. What's more, Daenerys's story seems pretty integral to the main plotline--she is, after all, the sole surviving heir to the real royal family. It didn't seem to me so much as a rise to power but rather her repossession of fallen power. I'd agree with this--most of the first season, right up to stupid Ned Stark's death, felt more like a looong prologue to me. It felt like, in the last episode, all the chess pieces were finally moved into their places, establishing tone and difference from typical fantasy fare (illustrating to us that this is a world where men like Ned Stark die, rather than act as heroes), like the real story was just finally beginning.
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Post by misslapin on Jun 20, 2011 23:53:01 GMT -5
To be fair, the world of GoT is huge. With so many characters,"houses", plots, and histories at play of course it's going to take a while to set things up. I enjoyed just getting to know this world and how it works. Part of the reason this book feels like a long prologue is that it doesn't just set up the players, but the "rules" of this world-not just the birth of dragons as well as the existence of direwolves and whitewalkers, but also that honorable people get killed by sadistic power crazy young men, that you have to be very careful and calculating about EVERYTHING you do, including walk out the door in the morning, that you can't trust ANYONE to be what they seem. Now that the viewers understand how things work here, I'm excited to see how things will play out.
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